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: The fact that there are few Atheists committing altrusitic deeds, which seems like quite a assumption, does not change the value of the ones who do. I would be curious where you found out about the number of atheists doing good deeds. I did not even know that they recorded that sort of thing. You had said in message 508:
If an Atheist funds a hospital for burn victims, or any of a hundred other example, how can you say that has no value? That is the type of thinking that scares me about religion.
And I replied in 509:
the fact is you don't find many (any?) atheists doing altruistic good deeds in any case, simply giving because they want to help someone. The vast majority of altruistic sacrificial good deeds have been done because of a sense of religious ethics.
You seemed to assume that people of all philosphies just naturally do altruistic (unselfish concern for the well-being of others) good deeds, and referred to an atheist funding a hospital for burn victims and "any of a hundred other examples." I don't say that atheists never do these things, just that religious ethics are generally the motivation for unselfish good deeds. The fact is there aren't very many self-described atheists in the first place. And I don't know of that burn hospital funded by an atheist, but there may be one. I do know of hospitals named "St. Judes" and "Mercy" and "Santa Theresa" and so forth. The people who established those were in some measure motivated by their relgious beliefs. The same is true of countless children's homes, convalescent homes, schools, counseling centers, and so forth. There are instances of people using philanthropy to launder their image, whether Al Capone or John Rockefeller, but unselfish good deeds are usually associated with a religious philosphy, more often than not a Judaeo Christian world view. The statistics are not complicated, the evidence is clear and abundant. Check the phone book on those institutions you would consider "charitable". America's premiere atheist, Madelyn Murray O'hair, founder of American Atheists (now deceased, a murder victim), had a business card that said, "Don't tell me how great I am, send money." The 1/1/1973 entry in Madelyn's diary read, ?I can take on any ten men hands down and win the battle and I am going to do it. I want money and power and I am going to get it.? I would not suggest that Madelyn typified all atheists, only that atheism cannot be reasonably construed to promote any philosophy that is not inherently self-serving. Atheism offers no inherent reason for altruism. But the real point had to do with good deeds. Bill Gates may for whatever reason give away billions, and do great good with it, for whatever reason. I know nothing about his religion or lack of it. I hope he uses his wealth well. But the observation by Jesus goes to the core of the matter,Luke 21:1-4 As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. "I tell you the truth," he said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others. All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on." NIV It isn't how much one has to give that matters, in terms of God's evaluation of us. So it can't be the "quantity" of good done that matters. Surely the rich did "more" good than the widow, but the widow had more approval from the Lord. Isn't it good that the wealthy or the talented don't have a "leg up" on "buying the stairway to heaven"? That God's evaluation of us rests more on what we are willing to do than what we are able to do? Before completely leaving this topic, may I recommend a thoughtful reading of the article linked below?
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