| Living Waters Message Board to refresh the saints... |
| These search engines are in no way affiliated with Living Waters. | |
|---|---|
|
|
Re: disparate stories Posted by caf - October 16, 2002 at 11:03:41pm 1280x1024x32 - Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 In Reply to: Re: disparate stories Posted by Louis - October 15, 2002 at 1:53:53am:
|
|
Louis, one of the things you are missing in the accounts of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 is that the account in chapter one (which really ends at 2:4a) is presented as an ordered sequence, day by day and event by event, while chapter two is not. One possible reason for this is that chapter one presents the creation from God's perspective, and hence the colophon (2:4a) that closes the section, while chapter 2 (through the colophon in 5:1a) is from Adam's perspective, and Adam didn't experience the sequence, he entered the creation story at the end. But whatever the reason for the different perspectives and emphases, the account is, as mentioned before, everywhere in the Bible treated as a unified account of the creation all things, culminating in the creation of a single human pair. Regarding a few of your points of difference in the two chapters, Gen. 2:19 refers to the creation of land animals in the past tense, it does not give a time reference in relation to the creation of man, only a time reference in relation to presenting them to the man. The words created and made are both used in the account in Genesis 1:26-27 in reference to the origin of man and woman. The references to forming man and making woman in 2:7 and 2:18 are completely consistent with the language of 1:26-27. The same words for "man" and for "make" are used in both chapters. There is no distinction in the text, no suggestion of seperate events. The man and woman in Genesis 1:29 were not exactly told they could eat of every tree, as you said. No, it was "every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. (Gen 1:29 KJV) They were given the trees that had fruit yielding seed for food. The Tree of Knowledge is certainly presented as being seperate and apart from all the other trees God had made. In Genesis 2:9 it is presented, along with the tree of life, as distinct from those "trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food." While the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life both had fruit, neither was apparently intended to yield seed and reproduce itself. This is not different than what God gave in Genesis 1:29, the same thing is described as man's food in the garden, the same trees for food, but also in the garden were two trees not for food that did not fit the same description and were not found elsewhere upon the earth. Genesis 1:31 is certainly not after mankind was multiplying in the earth, it is at the close of the sixth day of creation. Sin had not yet entered the world, all was as God had created it. Before sin entered, it was all very good, including mankind, the man and the woman God had made. As Solomon observed, "This only have I found: God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of many schemes." Eccl 7:29 NIV God indeed made it good, including the man and the woman. For that matter, God's assessment in Genesis 1:31 must include the angels as well, before the tempter himself sinned. Regarding the word "host" in Genesis 2:1, you have tried to describe this as a multitude of people. However, as I pointed out before, the word is used to describe the multitude of stars and heavenly bodies, both here and in Psalm 33:6. Here are a few passages which, along with Genesis 2:1, use the Hebrew word ?tseba?ah? to describe the vast array of the created realm, and not human beings. Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host. 2 Kings 17:16 They forsook all the commandments of the LORD their God and made for themselves molten images, even two calves, and made an Asherah and worshiped all the host of heaven and served Baal. 2 Kings 21:5 For he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD. 2 Kings 23:5 He did away with the idolatrous priests whom the kings of Judah had appointed to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah and in the surrounding area of Jerusalem, also those who burned incense to Baal, to the sun and to the moon and to the constellations and to all the host of heaven. NASU And there are other examples. Sometimes also the word is used to describe the angelic hosts. The word ?tseba?ah? can describe an army of humans, but it is used again and again to describe the multitude of heavenly bodies, the sun, moon and stars, just as it is used to describe the vast array of all that God had created in Genesis 2:1. As to whether the word means "what goes forth," Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, Copyright (c)1993, says it does -- tsaba' or (feminine) tseba'ah -- what goes forth, an army, a war, warfare, a host... so, you'll have to take issue with my source. The word comes from tsaba' which means, BDB tells us unsurprisingly -- to go forth, to wage war, to fight, to serve as the Gesenius Hebrew - Chaldee Lexicon of The Old Testament also affirms. So, I think it does indeed mean "what goes forth" and that can describe an army, but it also can describe the vast array that God brought into being, and that is how the word is used in Genesis 2:1. I don't know why any believer would deny the words of Jesus in John 10:34, or the Psalm from which he quotes. Jesus interprets that passage for us. The Psalmist referred to God's congregation (Psalm 82:1). God's congregation at that time, the days of Asaph the writer, was Israel (see Psalm 68:26). Jesus says the same when he says those being referred to were the ones to whom the word of God came (not all mankind). God gave Israel his word, he offered them an eternal relationship (see Exodus 19:1-6), to be his children and his treasured possession, but they chose injustice and darkness, as the Psalmist described, and so they faced death and condemnation like all men. They didn't live like sons of God. God spoke to Moses in a similar way: Ex 7:1-2 Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. You are to say everything I command you, and your brother Aaron is to tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go out of his country." (NIV) You are mistaken about the meaning of of "katabole" in Hebrews 4:3. It doesn't mean anything like the casting down of Satan. It is not used of violence or conflict. It is used of "throwing down" only in the sense that I might "throw" cement into a ditch to make a foundation. It means, "a founding (laying a foundation)." No, I didn't make that up, it's in Thayer's Greek Lexicon, or as the Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich Greek-English Lexicon puts it, "foundation, beginning." Yes, God has finished his work since the foundation, the beginning of the world. Please notice that this same word is used again and again in just this way in the New Testament (Matthew 13:35, 25:34, Luke 11:50, John 17:24, Ephesians 1:4, Hebrews 4:3, Hebrews 9:26, 1 Peter 1:20, Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8). May I comment, hopefully without being offensive, because I think you are earnest about the things you say, that while word studies can be a very fine tool, they can be very misleading if we don't carefully consider context and usage. Taking a sentence of any foreign language and trying to understand it by looking up words in a dictionary will seldom bring us to comprehension. I've had instructions that came with products made in Asia that used English words gleaned from a dictionary, but clearly the writer did not know their meaning, or how to use them in sentences, and the instructions, though all in English words, were incomprehensible. Language is much more than word definintions. My concern with the doctrine of creation is that it is a thread that runs all through the Bible, and no other important teaching stands apart from it. It is one of the core messages that the church is to proclaim to an unbelieving world, as Paul did in Lystra and in Athens and in the first chapter of Romans. We need to believe it as God said it, and know the God who is creator of all things. 1 Thess 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. NIV |
| Follow Ups |
| - |
| Post A Followup | ||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| E-Mail: | ||||||||
| Subject: | ||||||||
| ||||||||
|